AIMinds #017 | Louis Pereira, Creator of AudioPen

About this episode

Louis Pereira leads a double life: by day, he manages a traditional family business in Goa, India; by night, he's a digital creator, crafting web apps and occasional articles. His focus now is on perfecting AudioPen, a voice-based note-taking app he launched in March 2023, which has unexpectedly become his most successful project yet. His mission is simple: "ensure every user gets more than their money's worth".

Listen to the episode on Spotify, Apple Podcast, Podcast addicts, Castbox. You can also watch this episode on YouTube.

In this episode of AIMinds, Demetrios is joined by Louis Pereira, the mind behind projects like readsomethinggreat.com and the Nicheless blog. He shares his journey with his latest product, AudioPen that actually started as an experiment, built to explore the use of AI APIs. AudioPen soon gained traction on Twitter and evolved to become what it is today – a powerful tool for capturing and articulating individual thoughts.

Louis discusses the challenges he faced traversing from building in public on Twitter to using email updates. Despite the pressure and the emotional rollercoaster, he emphasizes the importance of user feedback and personal interaction with users, seeing it as a competitive advantage in a world where software is increasingly becoming a commodity.

A testament to this philosophy was when Louis's father used AudioPen to write an entire book about his life, free from spelling, punctuation, or grammar errors.

It has evolved to help people with disabilities, record dreams, and assist professionals in various ways. The tool's growth showcases the unexpected and extremely valuable ways people use products.

Finally, Louis points out, AudioPen is not designed for capturing conversations but individual thoughts, often used after meetings to organize and articulate thoughts before the next meeting. So, next time you have an influx of thoughts after a meeting, consider giving AudioPen a try.

Fun Fact: Louis Pereira built AudioPen and other projects using no-code tools such as bubble, proving that technical skills are not always necessary to create useful tech products.

Show Notes:

00:00 Bubble: Versatile tool for building without limitations.
04:23 Bubble is recommended for quick app creation.
07:19 Unexpected Twitter response led to AudioPen development.
13:06 AI evolved to mimic various writing styles.
14:45 Following gut and user feedback for hobby.
16:48 Improve feedback collection with AI technology.
21:53 Limited public sharing due to stress, clones.
24:33 Balancing public building with private progress is important.
27:02 AudioPen revolutionizes note taking for diverse needs.
30:04 AudioPen helping non-native English speaker write memoir.

More Quotes from Louis:

Transcript:

Demetrios:

Welcome back, everyone. This is the AI Minds podcast, the podcast where we explore the companies of tomorrow built AI. First, I'm your host, Demetrios, and this episode is brought to you by Deepgram, the number one text to speech and speech to text API on the Internet. Trusted by the world's top conversational AI leaders, startups, and enterprises like Spotify, Twilio, NASA, and Citibank. Today I'm with Louis. He is the founder of AudioPen. How you doing, man?

Louis Pereira:

I'm doing good. Nice. Nice to talk to you and quite excited about the chat.

Demetrios:

Yes. So I already got a little bit of your story, but I want to hear how you got into tech and how you created AudioPen.

Louis Pereira:

Yeah, I mean, I don't have a very conventional root into this stuff. I'm actually non technical by nature. I can't code, so I build the stuff I build with no code tools. The tool that I prefer at the moment is a tool called bubble. And because I'm a non technical founder, like, I've been trying to become a technical person for the last few years, unsuccessfully, and discovered bubble somewhere in 2021.

Demetrios:

So good.

Louis Pereira:

Yeah. And haven't looked back since. Like, I've kind of went down that rabbit hole and it was way more powerful than anything else I'd experienced in the no code world. And I've just been building one thing after the other since early 2021. And, yeah, like two and a half years in AudioPen happened to be one of the things I built, and it got some traction, so I doubled down on it and I've been focused on it for the last year.

Demetrios:

What are some other tools you've built before AudioPen?

Louis Pereira:

I have a whole graveyard of them, but a few that are still live. There's one called readsomethinggreat.com, which is sort of like a listicle site for evergreen content on the Internet. So extremely simple website that just resurfaces. Evergreen articles. So not the news, but articles that you can read today or five years from today or ten years from today, and they'd still be interesting media to consume. Written media, of course. I have one called niche less so Nicheless blog, which is a blogging platform, a very minimalist blogging platform without the social features, with a 300 word limit on what you can publish to kind of help people with. It's sort of like a micro blog without any judgment because there aren't public likes or follow accounts and all of that stuff.

Louis Pereira:

I have a couple of others, but these two are the biggest ones that saw some moderate level of success before AudioPen.

Demetrios:

Why was bubble so powerful for you?

Louis Pereira:

Every other no code tool that I've used is powerful at doing, or very good at doing one or two things, but very bad at doing most of the other things. And as a result of that, what you would have to do is whenever you had an idea, you'd have to filter that idea through the lens of this particular tool that you're trying to build with and try and figure out, can I build this idea with this tool? And if not, you have to tweak the idea to fit the tool, which is not ideal. Bubble was the first tool that can do almost everything, or the first tool that I discovered that can do almost everything. It might not be the best at everything, there might be certain tools that outperform it at one thing or another thing. But bubble has the capability to be at least a seven on ten at everything. So it lets you build what's in your head without having to wonder about whether the tool you're using is good enough to build it or not. And then, of course, once you gather more feedback from the market, you figure out if what you're building is the right thing or not. When you want to double down on it.

Louis Pereira:

You can maybe switch away from bubble if you want to, but you'd be surprised at how far you can go just with bubble as well. Like, AudioPen is still a bubble app.

Demetrios:

AudioPen looks great. It is very. I think bubble, for me, from the outside perspective, is that it is so visually appealing. The designs are so nicely done. It doesn't look like. Like the other one that I kind of compare it to is retool. And retool feels so janky and so wire framey. Bubble feels like for a designer.

Louis Pereira:

Yeah, I mean, I haven't used retool, so I can't really speak to that experience of yours, but I love bubble, man. Like, I'd recommend not only folks that are trying to learn how to code, but I'd recommend it to people that are like people who are developers as well, purely because of the speed that you can create stuff with, especially if you just want to get an idea out there, you have an idea in the morning, you want to get it out by even the afternoon. You can have a fully functional app built, or at least an MVP in half a day, and you'd be fine. You get some early feedback and then you can iterate from there. And if you ever want to then go and build it with code, you can. You have the flexibility to do that. But especially in the early stages of a product and in the current market that we're in, where every two weeks there's like a new thing that's turned up that people want to play with, I think speed is just becoming more and more important. And until we can build apps where we just talk to a computer and the AI sort of builds the entire interface for us, which we'll get there eventually, but until we get there, bubble's a very good stopgap solution for folks, 100%.

Demetrios:

So talk to me about the inspiration behind AudioPen. How did it come about?

Louis Pereira:

I can't take too much credit for it. I think it was quite an accidental creation for me. I was actually just messing around with the new AI APIs that were on the Internet, and I was almost thinking about focusing on a couple of other tools that I had, like read something great. Being one of them, it was like, okay, maybe I should double down on some of them. There is some signal from the market that people like it, figure out how to monetize those, etcetera. But I've always been very restless and I always like to build new things. So I remember having a conversation with myself maybe, maybe a few weeks before building AudioPen, where I was like, should I just double down on this one thing that's working a little bit, or should I just try and build new stuff? And I reached a point where there was just too much new stuff happening on the Internet, like everyone was building with AI. I was like, man, let me just try and figure this out.

Louis Pereira:

How do you use these APIs? What can I do with them? And so I set aside a week to just mess around. And I didn't want to build separate, I didn't want to build a whole tool for it. I just wanted to learn how to use it and then see what happens. So I decided to save some money and not buy domains and set up multiple websites. I said, I have my own personal website. I'll just use that as the host domain and build a bunch of tiny tools, is what I called it on my own website. So like subdomains on that, just build a few things and see if I can learn the thing and what happens. So I built about three, four tools in a week, everything ranging from a very, very early version of AudioPen to a couple of other text based tools.

Louis Pereira:

And I just kept sharing them on Twitter, and I was like, hey, I built this, see, what do you think? And people responded because I had a small Twitter following that was fairly active, and AudioPen just happened to resonate with more people than I expected it to, or at least that very, very early version of AudioPen. I wasn't building that for myself, I was just building it just to learn how to use these APIs. But a surprising number of people replied, or dmed being like, hey, this is cool. I could use this for this, I could use this for that. And then I was like, oh, that's interesting. I didn't expect that. And so then, yeah, I mean, I used to organize a hackathon in those days called half day build, which is an event where people could just come by and build something in half a day with the goal of going from idea to revenue on the Internet or offline. And half day build happened to be the weekend following this online experiment.

Louis Pereira:

So I was like, hey, half day build is coming. Let's just build AudioPen. Let's just build this version like v, one of this thing outside of my own website. And so I built it, and I got a paying user that day itself. I got a few paying users that day.

Demetrios:

No way.

Louis Pereira:

That was the 26 March, 2023 three. So just over a year now. And I've just like, ever since that day, I've just been like, okay, heads down, let's, let's just keep building because I've struck some sort of accord here.

Demetrios:

Mm hmm. It feels like there were a few strong signals right off the bat, people dming you, the posts that you were posting about getting a lot of traction, and then also when you put up a payment mechanism, instantly you saw people paying for it. Do you feel like there was something that resonated with people very strongly in this way? And if so, what was it?

Louis Pereira:

I actually think it was just the novelty of using AI in a way that most people hadn't seen it being used at that point. The fact that it was combining voice to text and text to whatever, text generation. So, like two separate sort of things in a very, very simple interface. The fact that it was like, I built it in 12 hours, I had to build the simplest version of the thing. And what that ended up doing is building the most intuitive version of the thing, because it was literally a simple, blank website with a button at the bottom. You press the button, you know, you're recording, you talk, you press a button to stop talking again. And then a few seconds later, it sort of spits out this bunch of text that is just a simpler version of what you said or a summarized version of what you said, which was cool, because most people, we didn't realize that when we talk we don't necessarily speak very efficiently. We always.

Demetrios:

Maybe I noticed that with myself, 100%.

Louis Pereira:

Yeah, you don't realize it till you listen to a recording of yourself. I'm sure I'll go back to this podcast and be like, why? I said too many ums and hours and, you know, repeated the same sentence twice or whatever. Um, like right now.

Demetrios:

But anyway, uh, no, it's more for me. I do that 100%. Like, I beat around the bush, or it's like, I can't ask that question better. I'm not articulating myself that well, and that is one thing that I've noticed, and it is painfully obvious when you listen back to yourself.

Louis Pereira:

Yep.

Demetrios:

And so, having a podcast, I have the luxury or torture of listening to myself every once in a while and seeing, ooh, I could really explain that better. Or the thread in my head, I knew what I was talking about. But when I listened back to it, I don't think that the point that I was trying to make came across as clear as I wanted it to.

Louis Pereira:

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's. That's exactly what. What AudioPen sort of created for people. It gave them that aha moment where they could see that what they said and what they wanted to say was slightly different, and AI could bridge that gap very, very quickly with just a couple of presses of a button. And it just happened to be early on. I got the timing quite right because not too many people had done something similar before that. No one that I knew had done something similar.

Louis Pereira:

I mean, I'm sure there must be some that I don't know of, but it was early on enough. Somehow I got lucky with the timing, but I guess I'd been building things for long enough that luck was bound to sort of show me its face at some point.

Demetrios:

Yeah, you put yourself out there enough times. It's just the amount of times at bat, right? So you're bound to hit one out.

Louis Pereira:

Of the park 100%. And I think that's more important in oil that's moving so quickly, it's difficult to. Knowing what to build is very, very difficult. And as building gets easier and easier, a better approach is to just build and see if people like it. They don't like it, just shut it down and build again. So if you enjoy building it, like, for me, I love building. Like, if AudioPen didn't work out, no problem. I'll probably build another, I don't know, four or five things in the last 365 days, and maybe one of them would have hit, you know, hit the, hit the target.

Louis Pereira:

I don't know, but that was my life prior to AudioPen. It most likely would have been my life after AudioPen as well.

Demetrios:

Yeah. So you gave us a little bit of a breakdown on what the MVP version was, where you click a button on a website, you talk and then you click a button and stop. And then I think what you would get back is it was just a.

Louis Pereira:

Summary of what you said. Pretty much. That was the day one mvp.

Demetrios:

How has it evolved since?

Louis Pereira:

In a whole range of directions. In the early days, it went from just giving you a summary to I would let you, I created a bunch of styles so you could now write in different styles. Let's say you wanted to write a blog post, you could just tell it to write a blog post for you. You could just blabber some stuff and it could do that. If you wanted to write like an academic, say you were writing an academic paper, you could do that. You wanted to write like a lawyer, you could click a button. It would do that. Then evolved more into allowing you to create your own custom styles so you could tell it, if you wanted it to mimic a particular passage of writing that you yourself wrote.

Louis Pereira:

So it would maintain, let's say, your sort of voice. Similarly, you could give it any sort of thing you wanted it to do. It would do that. Then just a bunch of smaller finesse features, organization stuff, tags, folders, web hooks that I created. So you can automate stuff across, across apps. So you could, let's say, jot down a note on AudioPen or speak out or not get it in a style. Click a button and it'll get sent via email to somebody. Or click a button and it'll go to a Google sheet where your team can access a bunch of things that you're saving or whatever.

Louis Pereira:

And yeah, I mean, most stuff, like right now you can write a blog on AudioPen and share your links publicly. You have like a profile page where you can share stuff with people. Um, yeah, I, and a bunch of smaller features that I don't remember, but it's been a continuous 365 days of, of gradually improving the product.

Demetrios:

How have you decided what features to add?

Louis Pereira:

Um, a combination of just following my gut because I am still a solo builder. I do this as a hobby and I want to continue enjoying this stuff. Um, so combination of following my gut and listening to feedback from users. I have a little feedback form, not even a form, it's just a little text box where people can just tell me what they think, what's not working what they like, what they want to see, and just click a button once you're logged in and I can get that user's feedback along with their email so I can write back to them being like, hey, if I have questions or just tell them that I built what they wanted, or sometimes justify why I'm not building what they want. But it's an easy way to hear back from people at a fairly regular cadence. Helps me sort of keep my, my ear to the ground.

Demetrios:

I'm surprised that you didn't make that an audio note.

Louis Pereira:

I wanted to. I actually really wanted to. I've just not done it yet. I've thought about that a few times. I actually thought about it so much that I almost thought it should be its own product, but then decided that, oh, audio feedback.

Demetrios:

Yeah, like that actually is.

Louis Pereira:

Yeah, I've spoken about that idea to a few people already. Someone's like took me up on it. I bought a domain and stuff. I bought audio survey AI a few months ago, but then I had to sort of tell myself that I need to focus on AudioPen since it's working, let me just keep at it. And audio survey can wait for another day. But I said I'm going to hang on to that domain for a bit.

Demetrios:

Wow, that is so cool. Yeah. Instantly my mind is racing on how you would, how that would look. But it is such a great idea because there's one piece of it which is like, okay, give feedback on a website, you just drop in an audio note where it's you being like, hey, I'm trying to change the account name and whatever, and it's not letting me. That's one piece. Or, why does your site keep crashing? It's kind of like, I think it'll.

Louis Pereira:

Be more important in places where you want more, you want richer inputs. So for instance, instead of a type form where somebody is supposed to tell you what they thought about your product, or even if you're in a restaurant, instead of giving somebody a little card, feedback card to write about what they thought, imagine if you could just give them a phone with a button, tell them to scan a code, press a button, talk about what you liked, what you didn't like, and then AI in the background just sort of classifies that data for you. Compiles multiple people's feedback and at the end of the month or end of the day kind of tells you, hey, this is what people like, this is what they don't like. Here's where you can improve. Here's what's going well, you get way richer feedback than just telling people to scribble stuff on a piece of paper.

Demetrios:

Yeah. And actually prompting the person who is giving feedback. And you would be able to know because, okay, they are finished with what they liked, and now you would prompt them with a new question that would pop up on their screen, and then you can have that. And so it's a little bit separated out. And so.

Louis Pereira:

The thing is, with all of these ideas, they might be good, but execution is not always easy. Figuring out how to reach your customer, how to convince them to pay for it, that's. That's a lot, lot harder than it sounds. I somehow managed to do that with AudioPen through Laka. The right people heard about it at the right time and shared it with others. And I don't want to take that for granted and sort of get sidetracked into building this other product, although I think it's a good idea because it's more likely than not that I could build that, but then I wouldn't be able to reach out to the right users in the right manner at the right price point, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Demetrios:

Yeah. And also you lose focus on AudioPen.

Louis Pereira:

Yep, yep, exactly.

Demetrios:

So do you want to try and juggle both things at the same time?

Louis Pereira:

I already have a day job, so I can't do three things. Like, I'm juggling two things. I definitely can't do three. Like, I've pushed myself to. To my limits this year, and I'd love to, you know, I'd love to think that I can do three, but I. I'm pretty sure I can't. It'll get too much.

Demetrios:

Yeah, it's very difficult. What have been some of the main challenges as you were building AudioPen?

Louis Pereira:

I think as a one person team, it has its pros, of course, because, you know, I hold everything in my head, so decision making doesn't involve any meetings. It's just me in the shower thinking to myself and being like, hey, yeah, you know, this would be good this way because of this, this and this. And done, I go do it. So that's great. But at the same time, it also creates a single point of failure. You know, like, from anything. Like, say, design of something. I don't have too much outside builder feedback on the stuff I'm building or even when it comes to support tickets, like, if I go on holiday, I'm never really on holiday.

Louis Pereira:

Like, I'm always with my phone, always looking, you know, checking my emails, trying to make sure everything's okay, nothing's broken. Support tickets aren't taking too long to reply to, so if I'm on a long flight, that can be a pain. So stuff like that, that's difficult. But I don't know how to manage the trade off. I think at the moment, given my lifestyle, it's okay, but at some point maybe I might have to hire a support person or something of that sort. But that's the hardest bit, letting go of stuff when you dont have anyone to let it go to.

Demetrios:

Yeah, and I imagine youre also learning a lot through these support tickets.

Louis Pereira:

Yeah for sure. And thats why I dont want to automate this stuff. Like, there are tons of tools right now that let you just put an AI chatbot on your app and it just handles 95% of your support tickets. But I definitely dont want that to be the case because number one, I want to know exactly what's happening, and number two, I think users appreciate it a lot more when they can talk to the founder of a product, no matter how big or small it is. If you as a founder, reach out to your users and genuinely try and help them when they're stuck, or explain to them what you're building, why you're building it, I think that ends up almost being a competitive advantage in a world where software is becoming a commodity. But anyone can build software who is building the software starts to matter a little more than it used to. Because you can have ten clones of AudioPen in ten days. It's not impossible.

Louis Pereira:

But as a founder, users like to build or to buy products from people that they like and trust. And one of the easiest way for people to like and trust you is to be in touch with them in a consistent manner and just genuinely be a, be a decent person when you're building stuff on the Internet and not a random, faceless corporation.

Demetrios:

So are you building in public?

Louis Pereira:

To an extent. I used to build in public a lot more, I would say in the past, but I sort of toned it down a little bit, mostly because of it started getting a little stressful at some point. I shared revenue numbers publicly in the start and got a lot of not negative feedback, got a lot of clones from that sort of experience, and just had a lot of people talking about it. And I'm a very introverted person by nature, and I don't really like to go out and tell the world what I'm up to and what I'm doing, and I don't like too much of attention on myself if I can help it. And this happened, this ended up being something like that. So now I try to build in public, but rather than doing it on Twitter, which is what my earlier preferred medium was, where I would explain what I was doing and how I was doing it and why I was doing it. Post, getting so many clones and seeing very obviously that a lot of these clones were just cloning things that I built blatantly, at least at the start. I haven't really.

Louis Pereira:

Right. I've tried to stay away from following them now, but that used to get very frustrating. So now I mostly just build in public via email. So with the AudioPen email list, every week or every couple of weeks, I will write a nice, a very long email to all of my users being like, hey, here's what I'm building. Here's what I built last week, explaining why I built it sometimes saying what I'm working on right now, what to expect, and just keeping that line of communication between current users active. Although I have noticed a drop off in the percentage of new users I can get, because of course, emails are not going to new people, they're going to people that know about the product. For now, I think that's my preferred mode of communication. When I get into growth mode again, I think I'll maybe explore Twitter or LinkedIn or maybe paid ads somewhere.

Louis Pereira:

I'm not sure.

Demetrios:

Yeah, there's a lot of sharks on Twitter, that is for sure. They will come after your product. And anybody who's building in public, I think, has felt that pain.

Louis Pereira:

Yeah, I mean, building in public definitely has its pros and cons, more pros and cons. I'd say if you know what you're doing, unfortunately, like, in today's world, I think a lot of people get confused and sort of flip. The ratio of building and the public pit. You should be building more than you're talking about what you're building. And people sort of think of building in public more about the public part. Like, you know, they're focusing on the public partner. They're talking more than they're doing. And I don't think that's very good.

Louis Pereira:

That gives you, like, an illusion of progress with people cheering you on and stuff. So I think it's important to build more than you talk about what you build and find a good medium. Like, if you enjoy Twitter. And, you know, all of my early users came from Twitter, right? This whole product would never be possible without Twitter. So I got to be grateful for that. But at the same time, all the people that already supported me on Twitter are already on that email list, so I'm not doing a disservice to them. I'm still building in public for them. I might not be reaching out to newer people on Twitter as much as I would like to, but that's because I feel like the negatives are getting in the way of me being able to focus without getting distracted by what everyone else is doing, which is why I've, you know, tried to build a little more privately.

Demetrios:

Yeah, I can imagine. Also, for your sanity, it helps quite a bit, and so you can focus on what you are doing and your product journey and talking to your users directly as opposed to throwing something on Twitter. Maybe it gets a lot of likes, maybe it doesn't. Maybe it gets a few clones off the back of it, maybe it doesn't. That just seems very volatile. And I know for myself, if I were in your position, that would drive me nuts because I would be on a absolute emotional rollercoaster. Up, down, up, down, up, down throughout the day. Wow, this post just went viral, and I got a ton of new inbound, but then, oh, no, there's five new clones that came off the back of that, and now I'm scrambling, trying to communicate my value prop in a different way.

Demetrios:

So it would. Yeah, it feels very difficult in that regard.

Louis Pereira:

Yeah. I mean, like most things in life, it depends. So it depends on where you're at. Yeah, I love Twitter. I still love Twitter. I do want to get back to tweeting more often, maybe less about what I'm building and more about just what I'm doing or thinking about. That's how I used to use Twitter in the old days. But unfortunately, or fortunately, in the last year, year or so, all I've been thinking about and doing has just been AudioPen.

Louis Pereira:

So I have become a very. Almost a one dimensional person in that regard. But I don't have that many interesting thoughts outside of this space. But for the current stage of my life, I'm okay with that trade off. I'm like, yeah, let's give this a few years and get back to doing funky shit later. So let's see what are ways that.

Demetrios:

People are using AudioPen. That surprised you?

Louis Pereira:

I had somebody who wrote to me saying that AudioPen changed their life because they had a disability of some sort where they didn't have full control of their arms or they had an accident or something of that sort. And AudioPen helped them go from voice note to finished text that could just be shared without having to edit rambling sort of voice note that was very, very interesting. I had someone on the, almost the complete other end of the spectrum tell me that they used AudioPen to record their dreams so they'd have a vivid dream in the night. They wake up in the middle of the night and you can't really write it down because you're half in your sleep, and they just press a button, tell AudioPen what they dreamt about, wake up in the morning, and then analyze their sleep or their dreams, rather, which was interesting and weird as well. The most common use cases that I sort of, you'd say were expected are people in professions. So folks that have meetings, whether it's salespeople or therapists, they like to use AudioPen to go over their thoughts after a meeting. So they have a meeting with a client or whoever, maybe, and then talk to AudioPen about what that meeting was like, and then organize that note in a folder or whatever so that when they meet that client the next time they have a very nice, concise note about what that meeting was, rather than having to write down meeting notes for each person, becomes a much simpler way to do that. I've had PhD students write their thesis with it as well, which was fascinating for me.

Demetrios:

That is interesting that you're talking about people coming out of meetings and then doing a brain dump into AudioPen, as opposed to someone turning on AudioPen in the meeting itself, because that's how I was envisioning people would be using it.

Louis Pereira:

Yeah, I mean, I think of AudioPen, and I've designed it as a, as a capture, as a, as a tool to capture individual thought, not conversational thought. So I haven't enabled, what do you call it, though? I haven't enabled it to. Yeah, it can't do that yet, and I don't think I'm going to make it do that, at least very soon. Also, coming out of a meeting and organizing your thoughts first, and then talking about them or talking about them and letting AI organize, it just feels more efficient. You just get your perspective, which is what you want to carry to the next meeting anyway.

Demetrios:

Yeah, it does. It feels also like you could add extra color on certain topics that in the meeting maybe they took a really long time to come to a conclusion, and then once that conclusion has been reached, you can put that into a, and talk about it for a few new ideas that you have had off the back of that. And so I could see that being very valuable. Any other interesting uses that you've seen?

Louis Pereira:

I mean, the expected stuff, mostly people writing blog posts people writing tweets. Um, my dad actually uses it for something very interesting. He's, he's written like an entire book about his life with AudioPen because he's a, he's a non native english speaker. So although he's, he speaks in English, he speaks in English to AudioPen as well. But when he types in English quite often, he has grammatical errors, punctuation mistakes, sometimes spelling mistakes as well, but he speaks fairly well. So AudioPen sort of has led him almost write a memoir of his own life from his childhood to now just by talking to it. And I'm actually going to print that book and share a few copies within the family in the coming months. So, yeah, I mean, that's a sort of cool bonus that I have given.

Louis Pereira:

Like, it's given me that through my dad.

Demetrios:

But, yeah, now you get to learn about your family more.

Louis Pereira:

Yep.

Demetrios:

Well, Louis, this has been really cool to hear about your journey, to hear about AudioPen and get to know a little bit more about the inspiration behind it. I appreciate you coming on here.

Louis Pereira:

Yep. Thanks for having me, man. Enjoy the chat.